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Forum/Closed Threads/Homesun - Problem solved?

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Over two weeks ago, I posted this on Homesun's talk page:

Have you heard of the Wikia Scratchpad Lab? You might find that more to your liking than the STEU. With all your comments like "leave my articles alone or I'll pull you off," it's clear you're not interested in being part of the community here. Without providing context in your articles, it seems you're not interested in helping other readers understand them, either. If you intend these articles solely for your benefit and not those of the general public, may I suggest using the Wikia Scratchpad rather than this community. On the scratchpad, you can experiment to your heart's content, and do what you want with your articles. --TimPendragon 23:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

According to his contributions at the Scratchpad, he seems to have taken this advice to heart. He hasn't posted anything here in over two weeks. He never wanted to be part of the "community" anyway, and I'd say now that he knows there's somewhere he can have "his own wiki," he's given up on contributing here.

I think his articles here can safely be deleted now. Shall we put it to a vote? --TimPendragon 19:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Vote to delete Homesun's contributionsEdit

Vote closes at 00:00 UTC, 25 January 2007

In favorEdit

  1. TimPendragon 19:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  2. --Kevin W. AdmTlk 20:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  3. JusticeCEO 00:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
  4. usscantabrian 00:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
  5. Sasoriza AdmTlk 07:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
  6. The NCC Factor Talk 16:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
  7. --Logan MacLeod 23:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

NeutralEdit

  1. --USS Enterprise Command Pin Sneg AdminTalk 22:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
  2. Luke80 06:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

OpposedEdit

  1. Captain M.K.B. 17:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


CommentsEdit

Without question, I'm in favor. --Kevin W. AdmTlk 20:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh hell yeah. Sasoriza AdmTlk 07:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I think it is too soon to "clean house". Maybe after six months we'll clean out the garbage? --USS Enterprise Command Pin Sneg AdminTalk 22:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
It appears as if he's ported most of his "material" to the Scratchpad, though I admit, it's hard to tell. He's been posting there pretty much non-stop (albeit under several identities) since I told him about it. I really doubt he's coming back, and I think the sooner we take out the garbage, the better we'll all feel, and the better image the wiki will have to newcomers.
If he ever does come back, we should welcome him only if he's going to adhere to the standards that everyone abides by. His actions, and what few words he said, have all indicated that he's "writing" his "articles" for his use only, and not for the public to read. If he persists in that, then he can stick to the Scratchpad where he can do as he pleases. --TimPendragon 00:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Hey look, he's back! I agree with Sneg, we should try patience for a change, and delete his articles according to policy. It will only cause more problems if we rush and try to circumvent our own policies and harangue his work. -- Captain M.K.B. 13:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Do you really believe there's a need for an article-by-article deletion vote in this case? They're all basically the same thing. We've been patient with him, and he's proven that he does not want to be a part of the community and does not care if his articles are understood by other readers. Remember when he threatened to "pull you [and Sneg] off" for "messing with [his] articles"? He has refused dozens of times to follow the rules of the wiki, throws a fit whenever someone edits his stuff, and has shown no interest in changing his ways.
We can try to contact him and suggest that he port the data from here to his area at the Scratchpad. Give him a chance to save anything he wants. But if he won't write his articles to be understood by anyone other than himself, he shouldn't be here. --TimPendragon 18:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh trust me - I haven't forgotten. I'm just not ready to pull the trigger on him yet. I guess I just like to hope that there is hope for him. Ask me again in a few months.... --USS Enterprise Command Pin Sneg AdminTalk 18:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Basically, what Sneg and I are saying is that it has never hurt to wait a while and then delete something. Its standard procedure at most wikis to avoid the confrontation by marking an article, leaving it in limbo for a while, then taking action after the smoke has cleared. You seem to be spoiling for the confrontation. I don't care that Homesun has made a "threat" -- I'm really not looking for a problem with anyone right now, and I don't believe that he can follow through and actually do anything to me. I don't need you encouraging me (or anyone) to be confrontational. There's a higher road to take and you are continuously being a cheerleader for the lower road of confrontation. -- Captain M.K.B. 18:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not spoiling for anything. For the first several months of us dealing with him (before you became active on the wiki again), I was at the forefront of trying to communicate him, but after he told me to "f--k off and stop touching my stuff, my articles are for me," I began to understand that it's hopeless. He has consistently proven - and admitted - that he doesn't want other people editing his articles, and he doesn't want them even read by other people. If he is only writing for himself, then he should not be posting these things here. Period. And now that he has another outlet, we should definitely do some house cleaning before anyone else comes and a)either thinks its okay to just have "shopping lists" and the like or b) won't take us seriously because of his crap. --TimPendragon 18:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I think I should add my 2 cents' worth. I help run a tertiary training establishment whose quality management systems are amongst the best in the Australasian region (we completed ISO 9001:2000 accreditation quickest any company in the Australasian region has completed it due to such a strong quality management system). Part of the way we deal with delinquent students is three warnings and that's it. Has Homesun had three warnings about the same thing? Is there a policy on STEU to deal with non-compliance to the standard? If not, we should probably create one to stop this (or at least stem this) from happening again.
The non-compliance policy needs to be fluid (i.e. not rigid enough that some of us get chucked off by accident) and with an "out clause" (whereby the administrators have the right to make a final decision on basis of previous information). Most of all, it will need to be followed and enforced. Warnings and judgement need to be consistent, valid, accurate and fair, and they need to appear impartial, i.e.:
"This user's articles do not comply with existing policy. This user is required to bring this (or their) article(s) in-line with established wikia policy or the administrators will remove it (them). This is warning number one; upon the third warning, this article will be removed. If there is no response or attempt to become compliant within X days, a second warning will be issued. If there are any questions, contact an administrator immediately for clarification."
If someone genuinely tries to make it work, fine. Go back to warning 1 if they slip up again. This thing is a learning curve, that's for sure.
I won't get into the whole thing but if there are any questions on this, just let me know. It sounds like to me, however -- and I am a late arriver onto this wikia -- that Homesun has outstayed his welcome, has continued to flaut the rules and regulations of this wikia without caring and he's been given enough rope. If you say, "You get three warnings. No seriously. No, don't do that. Oh okay four warnings," they won't take you seriously. 11 years of dealing with students has taught me that.
Again, just my humble opinion. -- usscantabrian 23:03, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
We did, actually, introduce a "grading" scale along those lines. Sasoriza AdmTlk 13:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I looked it over (just took a quick look over it) and it is rather vague. Maybe someone can strengthen that up a bit? Make a procedure or something (that is just a policy, i.e. procedures are created from policies usually). -- usscantabrian 20:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Mike, any particular reason you've changed from neutral to opposed? Or is it just pissiness over your disagreement with me? --TimPendragon 17:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Attempt at CommunicationEdit

I just sent this to Homesun:

Hey there, I see you found the Scratchpad. You should consider copying your articles here to your Scratchpad area, unless you are ready to give them introductions and context and flesh them out so they can be understood by other people. If not, then they'll probably be deleted on January 25.
Communicate with us on the talk pages, or the Hailing Frequencies forum, and let us know that you will make your articles readable, and we'll work with you. Otherwise, it's "move it or lose it" time.

Let's see if he responds. --TimPendragon 18:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks like he's not entirely gone. He just made another wacky off-the-wall edit to mirrorverse cultures.
As for some of the points: Patience is a good thing and confrontations definitely should be avoided. Some people should practice what they preach. Just like provoking others with smartass comments. Sasoriza AdmTlk 13:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Hey, was that a smartass comment towards somebody? :) -- Captain M.K.B. 06:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
DON'T. START.--TimPendragon 07:38, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
yeah sas, don't leave comments like that. Tim says you shouldn't start anything. :) -- Captain M.K.B. 08:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Mike, you are on thin ice. You may think you are hilarious, but I assure you, no one else here shares that opinion. Why must you constantly provoke people? --TimPendragon 17:20, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I think at least part of the problem lies in the fact that said people are so easily provoked. And you are right -- its not just funny, its hilarious. -- Captain M.K.B. 11:42, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Stop projecting your own insecurities and feelings of inadequacy on everyone else here, and it'll be a much better place all around. --TimPendragon 20:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a really inappropriate place to bust out with tirades like that. Really, just quit it. -- Captain M.K.B. 06:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Struck a nerve, did we? Look who's talking. --TimPendragon 06:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I have a hard time with you considering me a miscreant when you are running your mouth off like this here. If you'd cut it out and leave me alone, i guarantee you'd hear very little from me. -- Captain M.K.B. 07:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Stop your arrogant, childish, sarcastic, facetious, passive/agressive, and did I mention "smartass (see above)," behaviour with me and everyone else, and you've got a deal. Otherwise, if you are experiencing problems on this wiki, I suggest you look in the mirror, because you only have yourself to blame. --TimPendragon 07:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't believe you. get someone who matters to tell me. and stop disobeying the admins -- they suggested you take your problems to email. You are really crossing the line right now. -- Captain M.K.B. 15:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Both of you, knock it off, now. You're both very close to getting 1-week bans. --Kevin W. AdmTlk 16:29, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Kevin, I understand. Please here me, though. I abided by both Sasoriza and Sneg's instructions, and wasn't going to say another word. And then Mike continued making dispariging comments about me in this forum. If he continues to attack me in public, I will respond in public - though never with the inappropriate behaviour that he has displayed. I will continue pointing to the source of the problem, which is himself. --TimPendragon 18:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Might I remind y'all, this thread is supposed to be about Homesun's contributions. Maybe I should take some blame for getting things off-track, above (although I didn't start the fire), but that's it--enough's enough. Let's get it back to the topic of the thread. Deadline's tonight. Sasoriza AdmTlk 21:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Deadline. Majority has spoken. Sasoriza AdmTlk 05:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Thank you, Sasoriza. Can this thread be officially "closed" somehow (an archive, maybe)? --TimPendragon 07:05, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Go for it. Sasoriza AdmTlk 07:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Uh, I would... but how best to go about it? Something like "Forum/Closed Threads/Homesun - Problem solved?" ? --TimPendragon 07:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

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